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Philip Payne, οὐδέ, and Galatians 1 vv 16-17 | Women in the Church

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Philip Payne, οὐδέ, and Galatians 1 vv 16-17 | Women in theDenominationWomen in theDenominationRestoring order and releasing into ministry Menu Skip to content Home Vision Restoring order Releasing into ministry Contact Research αὐθεντεω αὐθεντέω resources αὐθεντέω: Lexicons, commentaries, extracts The Philodemus fragment (αὐθεντ[οῦ]σιν) αὐθέντης in Alexander Rhetor 2.1.6 and 2.6.3 Κεφαλή οὐδέ 1 Timothy 2 vv 11-15 Testimonies Philip Payne, οὐδέ, and Galatians 1 vv 16-17 Andrew Chapman / February 18, 2014 In a paper presented to the Evangelical Theological Society in 1986, and entitled ‘οὐδέ in 1 Timothy 2:12’, Philip Payne argued for a novel understanding of the meaning and gravity of οὐδέ in that text of scripture. A revised version of the paper was published in the Journal of New Testament Studies in 2008. As its title, ‘1 Tim 2.12 and the Use of οὐδέ to Combine Two Elements to Express a Single Idea’, indicates, he argues that there is only one prohibition in view, not two. As I showed in my previous post on the subject, οὐδέ serves, when employed without a previous negative, to add flipside one. According to the lexicons it ways ‘and not, nor’. So in 1 Timothy 2:12, we have: διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω (I do not permit a woman to teach) οὐδέ (nor) αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός (to exercise validity over a man).. and all the translations have a similar structure. Philip Payne argues for a completely variegated understanding of the meaning and gravity of οὐδέ, unknown to previous generations of scholars of both classical and New Testament Greek. He claims that the upholder Paul used it to combine two elements into one in a strong way, so that all that is prohibited in 1 Timothy 2:12 is the combination of the two elements, and not the elements considered separately and individually. It is like putting up a sign saying: NO RUNNING OR JUMPING IN THE COURTYARD and somebody running through, and when stopped saying ‘Oh, I thought the word ‘or’ combines two elements into one, and it was only running and jumping at the same time that is not allowed.’ Payne moreover claims that the verb αὐθεντεῖν ways ‘to seem authority’ (for oneself). This seems to be within the range of the meaning of the word, but he is wrong not to consider other options such as simply ‘to exercise authority’. Here is the utopian (short summary) of Payne’s paper, as it appeared in published form: The zillion of the paper consists of an struggle to prove that  Paul used οὐδέ in this previously unknown way in passages other than 1 Timothy 2 v 12. In some cases, Payne changes the plain meaning of the text to suit his purposes. In this post, I examine his treatment of Galatians 1 vv 16-17: He claims that it is not true that Paul did not consult with mankind and blood, since he consulted with Ananias!! And the scripture should really read something withal the lines of: ..I did not immediately consult with mankind and thoroughbred by going up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles surpassing me; or .. I did not immediately consult with mankind and blood, that is, by going up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles surpassing me; Thus Payne: This, quite frankly, is dangerous. Paul wrote: ‘I did not consult with mankind and blood’; and Philip Payne says that unquestionably he did consult with mankind and blood, denying the veracity of the scriptures, and waffly the meaning of words. In specimen the reader may be left wondering whether in fact Paul did consult with Ananias, the word used, προσανατίθημι, was used of consultation for the purpose of instruction, as with a soothsayer or interpreter of dreams. Here is Ernest Burton [‘The Epistle to the Galatians’, ICC, 1920], p.54: and here is the entry from the BAGD Lexicon: Προσανεθέμην is taking the dative in verse 16 here (σαρκὶ καὶ αἵματι), as in meaning 2. above, so Paul is saying that he did not go to anyone to seek advice. There is no record in Acts 9 of Paul seeking translating from anyone in Damascus, so there is no difficulty in translating οὐδέ in the normal way: nor did I go up [NASB]; nor did I go up [NKJV]; nor did I go up [RSV]; nor did I go up [ESV]; neither went I up [ASV]; and so on. Payne cites in his support the New English Bible translation: ‘without consulting any human being, without going up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles surpassing me, I went off at once to Arabia . . .’ but this is not support for his position that Paul did consult a human being. On the contrary, it says that he did not. Ronald Fung, in the New International Commentary on the New Testament [Galatians, 1988], p.68 gives what appears to be the same translation: ‘When that happened, without consulting any human being, without going up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles surpassing me..’ and then comments, on the pursuit page: ‘.. vv. 16b-17 emphasize the fact that immediately without his conversion Paul did not consult anyone, least of all the apostles in Jerusalem..’ We can see that existing translations take one of two views. The most worldwide is: I did not consult with mankind and thoroughbred (in Damascus), nor did I go up to Jerusalem to the apostles. But a few may be reading it as: I did not consult with mankind and thoroughbred (at all); and (in particular), I did not go up to Jerusalem to the apostles. I think both of these are possible, and do not transgress the boundaries of possible meanings of οὐδέ. The second possibility is not at all the same as Payne’s reading, which is: I did not [consult with mankind and thoroughbred COMBINED WITH go up to Jerusalem to the apostles]; (but I did consult with mankind and thoroughbred in Damascus). If he could prove that this reading is correct, then he would have support for his reading of 1 Timothy 2:12, which is: I do not permit a woman [to teach COMBINED WITH to seem validity over a man]; (but I do permit a woman to teach, so long as it doesn’t involve her thesping validity over a man). But it is not correct. It invents a new previously unknown meaning for οὐδέ, and there is no justification for it. Andrew February 18, 2014 in Research. Tags: Galatians 1 vv 16-17, Philip Payne, Women in the church, Women's ministry, οὐδέ Related posts Planet charade (ἐκ πλάνῃ in 1 Thessalonians 2 v 3) The meaning of οὐδέ in 1 Timothy 2:12 Post navigation ← Stopping the rot Faith in the darkness → Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email write will not be published. 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