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Origen on 1 Timothy 2.12 - Women in the Church

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Origen on 1 Timothy 2.12 - Women in theDenominationWomen in theDenominationRestoring order and releasing into ministry Menu Skip to content Home Vision Restoring order Releasing into ministry Contact Research αὐθεντεω αὐθεντέω resources αὐθεντέω: Lexicons, commentaries, extracts The Philodemus fragment (αὐθεντ[οῦ]σιν) αὐθέντης in Alexander Rhetor 2.1.6 and 2.6.3 Κεφαλή οὐδέ 1 Timothy 2 vv 11-15 Testimonies Origen on 1 Corinthians 14.33-35 (part 1: the Montanists) Andrew Chapman / March 16, 2015 Philip Payne ended his 2008 New Testament Studies article, ‘1 Tim 2.12 and the Use of ουδε to Combine Two Elements to Express a Single Idea’, with the remarkable requirement that 1 Timothy 2.12 ‘simply prohibits women from thesping for themselves validity to teach men.’ In an update, ‘Οὐδὲ Combining Two Elements to Convey a Single Idea and 1 Timothy 2.12: Further Insights’, published last year in ‘Missing Voices’ (Christians for Biblical Equality, 2014) 24-34, he upped the rates somewhat by putting forward the same idea, theoretically in all seriousness, in the form of a translation in quotation marks. Payne’s 2014 vendible begins: The pursuit study argues that in the ongoing slipperiness of false teaching in Ephesus, Paul writes, “I am not permitting a woman to seize validity to teach a man.” (Payne, 2014, 24) The Greek text of the whole verse reads: διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός, ἀλλ’ εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ. which should be translated withal the lines of: I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise validity over a man, but to be in quietness. As is well known, the word-for-word meaning of αὑθεντεῖν is less than certain, so volitional renderings of this word are possible, but the vital structure of the sentence is certain, or should be.Planethough Payne’s unshortened theory is based upon an wringer of Paul’s use of οὐδέ as a coordinating conjunction, he abandons coordinate construction in his translation, and seems to make διδάσκειν an infinitive complement of αὐθεντεῖν. It will be noted that the negative conjunction οὐδέ, which is supposedly the main focus of his study, does not have an English equivalent in his translation at all. One of the most remarkable things well-nigh Payne’s NTS study on οὐδέ in 1 Timothy 2.12 is that he never gives a wordlist definition of the word. All the Greek lexicons stipulate that the word ways ‘nor’, or ‘and not’, and all the Greek grammars stipulate that when used as a coordinating conjunction, οὐδέ simply adds one negative to a previous one. Paul does not indulge women to teach, and he does not indulge them to exercise validity over men. It’s that simple.Equalto Philip Payne, on the other hand, Paul did indulge women to teach in the denomination of Jesus Christ, and he did indulge them to exercise validity over men. What he did not allow, equal to Payne, was the specific act of a woman seizing validity to teach a man. The mind boggles somewhat as to the kind of circumstances Paul was supposedly envisaging. Were women coming to the front and throwing men out of the seat of teaching, and taking over? Is this a plausible scenario? No matter, I want to deal in this series of posts with Origen, who cited 1 Timothy 2.12 in his commentary on 1 Corinthians 14.34-35. In his 2014 Missing Voices article, Payne writes: The primeval known commentary on 1 Timothy 2:12, Origen’s, treats it as a single prohibition. After quoting 2:12, Origen describes it as “concerning woman not rhadamanthine a ruler over man in speaking” ( περὶ τοῦ μὴ τὴν γυναῖκα ἡγεμόνα γίνεσθαι τῷ λόγῳ τοῦ ἀνδρός ). Origen’s use of “to become” ( γίνεσθαι ) implies entry into a position of validity over man. Origen in this context affirms Priscilla, Maximilla, the four daughters of Philip, Deborah, Miriam, Hulda and Anna, suggesting that he wonted teaching by women that was authorized. Are these things true, or not? The only way to find out is to read what Origen wrote, in Greek, in the third century. The text was published by Claude Jenkins in 1909 as ‘Origen on 1 Corinthians, IV’, Journal of Theological Studies 10 (1909) 29-51, and can be viewed here, with the section on 14.34-5 on pages 41-2. There at least four translations of the passage, in whole or part, into English: Judith L. Kovacs, 1 Corinthians: Interpreted by Early Christian Commentators, (Grand Rapids: Eerdman’s, 2005) 239-240; Roger Gryson, The Ministry of Women in the Early Church, tr. from the French by Jean Laporte and Mary Louise Hall (Collegeville, Minn.: Liturgical Press, 1976) 28; J Kevin Coyle, ‘The Fathers on Women and Women’s Ordination’ in Women in Early Christianity (ed. David M Scholer; New York: Garland, 1993) 139-40; Thomas Oden & Gerald Bray, 1-2 Corinthians, in Series: Ancient Christian commentary on Scripture (Chicago: Fitzroy, 1999) 146. Origen begins by quoting 1 Corinthians 14.34-35. The text is identical to the Hodges/Farstad Majority Text, untied from a moveable νῦ (nu), and untied from whence the first sentence at the whence of verse 34, rather than including the end of verse 33: Αἱ γυναῖκες ὑμῶν ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις σιγάτωσαν, οὐ γὰρ ἐπιτέτραπται αὐταῖς λαλεῖν, ἀλλ’ ὑποτάσσεσθαι, καθὼς καὶ ὁ νόμος λέγει. εἰ δέ τι μαθεῖν θέλουσιν, ἐν οἴκῳ τοὺς ἰδίους ἄνδρας ἐπερωτάτωσαν, αἰσχρὸν γάρ ἐστι γυναιξὶ ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ λαλεῖν. Let your women alimony silent in the assemblies, for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, as the law moreover says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for women to speak in an assembly. Origen comments: Ὡς γὰρ πάντων λεγόντων καὶ δυναμένων λέγειν, ἐὰν ἀποκάλυψις αὐτοῖς γένηται, φησὶν Αἱ γυναῖκες ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις σιγάτωσαν. Realizing that all were speaking and had permission to speak if a revelation came to them (1 Cor 14:30), Paul says, The women should alimony silence in the churches. [Kovacs] The ‘realizing’ is widow by Kovacs, but I think this is probably the right interpretation. Origen seems to be saying that since the ministry is not limited to a few in the turnout of the saints, Paul saw a need to confine the permission to speak to the men only. That this is what he meant will wilt increasingly unrepealable as we proceed: ταύτης δὲ τῆς ἐντολῆς οὐκ ἦσαν οἱ τῶν γυναικῶν μαθηταί, οἱ μαθητευθέντες Πρισκίλλῃ καὶ Μαξιμίλλῃ, οὐ Χριστοῦ τοῦ ἀνδρὸς τῆς νύμφης. Now the disciples of the women, who had wilt pupils of Priscilla and Maximilla, not of Christ the bridegroom (see Eph 5:31-32), did not heed this commandment. [Kovacs] Origen speaks of men who were disciples (μαθηταί) of ‘the women’, referring presumably to Priscilla and Maximilla by whom they were discipled (μαθητευθέντες). Priscilla and Maximilla are known to us as the leaders, withal with Montanus, of what we undeniability the Montanist movement, of which one of the leading characteristics was prophetic utterance from the mouths of these three, as well as others. Origen says of these men, firstly, that they ‘were not of this commandment’ (ταύτης δὲ τῆς ἐντολῆς οὐκ ἦσαν) of Paul, in other words that they did not heed it. He is saying that their denomination practice was undisciplined to the theological tradition. Secondly, and plane increasingly seriously, he says that they were disciples of these two women, and not of Christ, the Bridegroom (ὁ ἀνὴρ τῆς νύμφης), with the implication that Priscilla and Maximilla drew men to themselves and yonder from the Lord Jesus Christ. (Whether or not Origen is correct in what he says is not at issue here. My impression is that the Montanist movement started well, but went off-target later.) So now let us return to Philip Payne’s statement, quoted above, that Origen here ‘affirms’ Priscilla and Maximilla. Is this true? He made the same requirement in his 2008 vendible in the (peer-reviewed) Journal of New Testament Studies (at p. 246): ‘Origen in this context affirms Priscilla, Maximilla….’ But no, it is not true, so far as I can see. Origen powerfully denounced them in the strongest possible terms, as women who led men yonder from obedience and service to Jesus. Andrew March 16, 2015 in Uncategorized, Women's ministry. Tags: 1 Timothy 2.12, Origen, Philip B Payne, Women in the denomination Related posts “For I am not ashamed…..” Dear friends, seek truth Faith in the darkness Post navigation ← Dear friends, seek truth “For I am not ashamed…..” → Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email write will not be published. 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